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Author Topic: Canadiens Related (On Topic Only)  (Read 39991 times)

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Offline gregoire

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Re: Canadiens Related (On Topic Only)
« Reply #1800 on: February 08, 2010, 04:54:49 PM »
Yes.
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Re: Canadiens Related (On Topic Only)
« Reply #1801 on: February 08, 2010, 04:55:03 PM »
Yes. Clearly the way to go was to be horrible for a bunch of years instead of mediocre. This way they could have turned the team around by now like the Penguins and Hawks, althoug the fans would be pissed and the management team would have been turned over two to three times by now.
So Montreal fans are like a lot of Leaf fans, and can't watch as their team properly develops through the draft? 

This makes no sense to me...what would Habs fans rather have?  A bad team for a few years, with the possibility of being a top team...or a mediocre team indefinitely?
Canadian fans period can't handle being a bad team for a few years, sure it may happen that a team will suck for a few years, but every year there is some sort of hope otherwise people would go crazy.

They cannot stand being mediocre, but seem to accept it if thye can find someone to boo all the time (hello Brisebois!)

They would go ballistic being near the bottom of the standings.

"There comes a point when any reasonable man will swallow his pride and admit he made a mistake. The truth is... I was never a reasonable man." - Ed Bloom (Big Fish)


Offline Sharks2009

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Re: Canadiens Related (On Topic Only)
« Reply #1802 on: February 08, 2010, 05:24:05 PM »
Yes. Clearly the way to go was to be horrible for a bunch of years instead of mediocre. This way they could have turned the team around by now like the Penguins and Hawks, althoug the fans would be pissed and the management team would have been turned over two to three times by now.
So Montreal fans are like a lot of Leaf fans, and can't watch as their team properly develops through the draft? 

This makes no sense to me...what would Habs fans rather have?  A bad team for a few years, with the possibility of being a top team...or a mediocre team indefinitely?
Canadian fans period can't handle being a bad team for a few years, sure it may happen that a team will suck for a few years, but every year there is some sort of hope otherwise people would go crazy.

They cannot stand being mediocre, but seem to accept it if thye can find someone to boo all the time (hello Brisebois!)

They would go ballistic being near the bottom of the standings.
Again - is it not better to be bad for a few years (see Pit, Chi) and have a chance to be a top team...or barely make the playoffs, and be first round and out teams?

I compare it to the Jays...who said they had a plan...and the plan was working, but the team had some early success (85 wins one season), so they deviated from the plan, thinking that their time was near, and it ended up in a failure.

How long before Burke's Leafs are consistently better than the Habs, because Burke has a plan, and is sticking with it (for the first year, anyway).

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Re: Canadiens Related (On Topic Only)
« Reply #1803 on: February 08, 2010, 05:57:28 PM »
Yes. Clearly the way to go was to be horrible for a bunch of years instead of mediocre. This way they could have turned the team around by now like the Penguins and Hawks, althoug the fans would be pissed and the management team would have been turned over two to three times by now.
So Montreal fans are like a lot of Leaf fans, and can't watch as their team properly develops through the draft? 

This makes no sense to me...what would Habs fans rather have?  A bad team for a few years, with the possibility of being a top team...or a mediocre team indefinitely?
Canadian fans period can't handle being a bad team for a few years, sure it may happen that a team will suck for a few years, but every year there is some sort of hope otherwise people would go crazy.

They cannot stand being mediocre, but seem to accept it if thye can find someone to boo all the time (hello Brisebois!)

They would go ballistic being near the bottom of the standings.
Again - is it not better to be bad for a few years (see Pit, Chi) and have a chance to be a top team...or barely make the playoffs, and be first round and out teams?

I compare it to the Jays...who said they had a plan...and the plan was working, but the team had some early success (85 wins one season), so they deviated from the plan, thinking that their time was near, and it ended up in a failure.

How long before Burke's Leafs are consistently better than the Habs, because Burke has a plan, and is sticking with it (for the first year, anyway).

You assume that I think that was the better way.

And I really honestly think the Habs have more / better assets today than the Leafs currently have... will be interesting to see what the new GM does with them.
"There comes a point when any reasonable man will swallow his pride and admit he made a mistake. The truth is... I was never a reasonable man." - Ed Bloom (Big Fish)

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Re: Canadiens Related (On Topic Only)
« Reply #1804 on: February 08, 2010, 06:02:08 PM »
Whatever the reason, the fact remains that the Canadiens, except for one season, have made only marginal improvement under Gainey's tenure from where they were when he was hired. Here's hoping his eventual replacement can finally turn this club back into a Stanley Cup contender.


Sorry Lyle, I disagree with you wholheartedly. Marginal improvement is not fair to Bob. When he took over this franchise, they had almost zero decent prospects in the funnel, their scouting was atrocious and the entire franchise was a joke. Bob improved Montreal in all of the above mentioned areas and brought a whole lot of respectability back. Where he failed was progressing the team towards a championship. I question though if that was his main task to begin with in the first place. Of course every GM is hired to bring a title home but in order to do that you need a solid foundation. I think this is what Bob has given this franchise and now it will be upto the next GM to take it to the next level. Additionally, I think since Bob lost his daughter he has been "different" in many ways. I think that MR. Gainey needs a well deserved rest from the game in general. Take care Bob and best wishes to you!

I agree.

I think Gainey did a lot of good things for the organization.

But everyone will criticize him (and always point to) that he did not being the cup in 5 years - after all, what else is the point of a 5-year plan.

Sad.
"There comes a point when any reasonable man will swallow his pride and admit he made a mistake. The truth is... I was never a reasonable man." - Ed Bloom (Big Fish)

Offline gregoire

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Re: Canadiens Related (On Topic Only)
« Reply #1805 on: February 08, 2010, 06:24:09 PM »
I'm a Gainey guy dating back to his captaincy days, but what funnel are we talking about here. How good have the drafts been? Not as good as we think. Chipchura is gone, Higgins is gone, Komisarek is gone. McDonough never saw action. Paccioretty is unimpressive. I couldn't tell you a thing about David Fischer...
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Offline HockeyinHD

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Re: Canadiens Related (On Topic Only)
« Reply #1806 on: February 08, 2010, 07:36:05 PM »
Whatever the reason, the fact remains that the Canadiens, except for one season, have made only marginal improvement under Gainey's tenure from where they were when he was hired. Here's hoping his eventual replacement can finally turn this club back into a Stanley Cup contender.

A process that I'm sure will be aided wonderfully by foolishly keeping Gainey around long enough to lock up 18.3 million bucks in three forwards through 2014 in a last desperate attempt to save his job.

Offline Lyle Richardson

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Re: Canadiens Related (On Topic Only)
« Reply #1807 on: February 08, 2010, 07:46:36 PM »
Whatever the reason, the fact remains that the Canadiens, except for one season, have made only marginal improvement under Gainey's tenure from where they were when he was hired. Here's hoping his eventual replacement can finally turn this club back into a Stanley Cup contender.


Sorry Lyle, I disagree with you wholheartedly. Marginal improvement is not fair to Bob. When he took over this franchise, they had almost zero decent prospects in the funnel, their scouting was atrocious and the entire franchise was a joke. Bob improved Montreal in all of the above mentioned areas and brought a whole lot of respectability back. Where he failed was progressing the team towards a championship. I question though if that was his main task to begin with in the first place. Of course every GM is hired to bring a title home but in order to do that you need a solid foundation. I think this is what Bob has given this franchise and now it will be upto the next GM to take it to the next level. Additionally, I think since Bob lost his daughter he has been "different" in many ways. I think that MR. Gainey needs a well deserved rest from the game in general. Take care Bob and best wishes to you!

I agree.

I think Gainey did a lot of good things for the organization.

But everyone will criticize him (and always point to) that he did not being the cup in 5 years - after all, what else is the point of a 5-year plan.

Sad.

Hey, Gainey did his best, but his best wasn't good enough. I was willing to be patient and was for several seasons and it appeared in 2007-08 and the first half of last season that patience had been rewarded.  Then everything fell horribly apart, and Gainey saw he needed an overhaul. He rolled the dice big time this past summer. Some of the moves (Gionta and Cammalleri) were terrific, and while Gomez is overpaid it was acquiring him that was a factor in Gionta and Cammalleri agreeing to sign with Montreal last summer.

Still, the Habs are now pressed for cap space for next season with Plekanec and either Price or Halak to be re-signed, as well as Pouliot, Lapierre, Mara, Bergeron and Sergei Kostitsyn. They can't afford to keep everyone so barring a significant trade or two to bring in affordable talent -not easy to do in today's salary cap world - the Habs probably won't be much improved next season over this year's group.

The summer of 2011 will also be interesting as the team's best defenseman, Markov, is eligible for UFA status, and he'll probably decide to bolt elsewhere then. Hamrlik will also be up as well as Gill. Currently for that year they have over $24 million committed to six players. Obviously that number will grow in the coming months but at least they'll have more room to work with at that time.

I don't fault Gainey for trying but in the end the Canadiens are only slightly better now than they were when he took over.
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Offline HockeyinHD

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Re: Canadiens Related (On Topic Only)
« Reply #1808 on: February 08, 2010, 08:50:06 PM »
I don't fault Gainey for trying but in the end the Canadiens are only slightly better now than they were when he took over.

93, 93, 90, 104, 93.

Lost in Round 2, Lost in round 1, Out of playoffs, Lost in round 2, Lost in round 1.

This year, Montreal's on pace for 85 points and to likely miss the playoffs, which would be symmetrical if nothing else.  And next years team is most likely going to be shallower.

Not only are the Canadiens worse relative to the rest of the league than they were in 2003-4, but they're in a much weaker position with regards to being able to improve since Gainey's last grasps at success required him to give NTCs of varying degrees to big money UFAs.

For all of his earlier success in Dallas, since arriving in Montreal Bob Gainey's done a passable impression of JFJ.

Offline NonMint

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Re: Canadiens Related (On Topic Only)
« Reply #1809 on: February 08, 2010, 08:51:46 PM »
For all of his earlier success in Dallas, since arriving in Montreal Bob Gainey's done a passable impression of JFJ.

Jeff.

Finger.

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Offline gregoire

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Re: Canadiens Related (On Topic Only)
« Reply #1810 on: February 08, 2010, 10:14:36 PM »
That's what I'm saying. You prove my point. You sound like the typical blinded Canadiens fan (and yes, we are all blinded by the hope of our team doing well. Just speak to a Leafs fan). Chipchura, isn't that great, but it doesn't matter because he isn't a Hab so it doesn't improve the Canadiens. Higgins is a fading star, but again, it doesn't matter because he doesn't play for Montreal. Komisarek is overrated big time. Maybe it's due to injury, but guess what? It doesn't matter because the hated ones are stuck with him. McD is gone too. Get my point? You can't improve the funnel when the funnel doesn't play for you. Plus the funnel didn't even turn out to be as good as we thought it did. If it was, they'd still be here. Heck, even Price is questionable right now. Pacioretty has done nothing to prove his worth yet and Fischer as you agreed, sucks.

Who cares how the Habs drafted before Gainey? It wasn't so great with him, and the guys he drafted aren't even here anymore. All that's left are a couple of Tits.
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Offline Lyle Richardson

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Re: Canadiens Related (On Topic Only)
« Reply #1811 on: February 08, 2010, 10:51:39 PM »

Gomez and 1st rounder to TB for Lecavalier, Meszaros and a 2nd rounder.....then waive Gill and Mara and bring up Weber full-time ;)......that one is for you Lyle......i KNOW YOU WAAAANNNNT IT...LMAO! ;D


Unlike some folks I don't dwell in the realm of fantasy trades.  :P
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Offline Spar

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Re: Canadiens Related (On Topic Only)
« Reply #1812 on: February 08, 2010, 11:41:09 PM »
Although I wasn't very happy with Gainey's results as GM, I'm sad to see him step down. Great man, great player and member of this organization.

As for trades, I don't expect much. As it's been said, Gauthier and Bob have been working together for years. Hard to imagine things will change drastically.

Offline gregoire

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Re: Canadiens Related (On Topic Only)
« Reply #1813 on: February 09, 2010, 02:44:58 AM »

Oh but Lyle......it really is nice and warm here.....and these padded walls make it even better...won't you please come and play with me :)

You're last name wouldn't happen to be Roy would it?
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Re: Canadiens Related (On Topic Only)
« Reply #1814 on: February 09, 2010, 04:17:25 AM »
Mr. Gauthier stated in his address that they will not be trading Halak or Price.....Bob stated that they have been dancing with other teams...........what other moves does that leave for Pierre to make?

Gomez and 1st rounder to TB for Lecavalier, Meszaros and a 2nd rounder.....then waive Gill and Mara and bring up Weber full-time ;)......that one is for you Lyle......i KNOW YOU WAAAANNNNT IT...LMAO! ;D

Thoughts/Speculation anyone?

1) If Vinny really wanted to be in MTL, he would already be in MTL.

2) Why does everyone wanna ditch Gill so bad? The guy is rock solid on the PK, and if used in proper situations, is a good top 6 guy. Just because the Habs had lots of injuries on D this year, and they were forced to use GIll in situation he should not have been used (and he played too many minutes) is not the guy's fault.  I just don't get it.
"There comes a point when any reasonable man will swallow his pride and admit he made a mistake. The truth is... I was never a reasonable man." - Ed Bloom (Big Fish)